Deep sea rescue tugs of ww2

[John Arton]

My father was on rescue tugs during ww2, based in campbeltown, Scotland and then Milford haven where his tug was involved in the PLUTO project.
I purchased "the Tatty Lads" book which is about the men of the merchant navy who served on these tugs, an interesting read.
What I have yet to discover is that did a rescue tug accompany each convoy. I have his medals, the Atlantic, Mediterranean and Africa stars, so he certainly got around. Did those rescue tugs escort convoys or just go out to rescue any ships that were nearing the end of their voyage?
All his salvage expertise was taught to him by Dutch salvage crews that had escaped from Holland with their tugs when Germany invaded.
Rgds
J.A.

[Brenda Shackleton]

Hello John
As far as I know, they did not automatically accompany a Convoy, but as you say, towed ships that were nearer to 'home'.
If you know what Tugs your Dad served on then you should be able to track their voyages and that would answer your question. Good luck

Brenda

[Doc Vernon]

Just some info on the Subject in question, hope it may assist!
Cheers

DEEP SEA RESCUE TUGS (D.S.R.T)
Thousands of seamen of all nationalities owe their lives to the brave men who manned the Deep Sea Rescue Tugs. Introduced in September, 1939, they were manned by volunteers from the Merchant Navy and from the Fishing Fleets. All came under the authority of the Royal Navy. A base facility was set up at Campbeltown on the Mull of Kintyre in Scotland and named HMS Minona. As the war progressed, the tugs were based at Loch Ewe, Oban and Londonderry in Northern Ireland and even at a base in Iceland. Later on in the war, the Deep Sea Rescue Tugs were based at ports around the Mediterranean. As more tugs became available, they even accompanied the slower convoys across the Atlantic and were responsible for saving hundreds of ships that were towed to safety after being torpedoed or bombed. On and after D-Day about 160 of these tugs were deployed in the transportation of the Mulberry Harbour across the English Channel to the Normandy beaches. The 59 merchant ships, used to form the breakwater, were also towed across to be sunk. The huge drums containing the Pluto pipeline, which supplied 1.25 million gallons of fuel every day to the Allied armies, were also towed across the Channel by these tugs. In all, 41 Deep Sea Rescue Tugs were lost during WWII.


Rescue tugs | National Museums Liverpool (liverpoolmuseums.org.uk)

[j.sabourn]

Cheers When one talks about tugs one often tends to describe them by their bollard pull. My time in towing firstly was experienced in 3000 HP. Where was usual to have two on the towing end , one on the Bridle , the other towing from some fixed point on the structure. When I left the North Sea In 1991 the oil companies wouldn’t look at anything below 12000 HP. All or most of the discarded tonnage finished up in the graveyard in Singapore , where a lot of it was picked up by companies on bareboat charter for jobs in the likes of Australian waters . These deepsea tugs with the convoys during the war can anyone say what HP they were , I would be surprised if they were much above 3000 HP .Towing vessels in bad weather would be no piece of cake. As such descripive measurements are now measured in watts 746 watts equals 1 HP if my memory is correct for once. JS
Or maybe it is the other way round ?
However saying all that my last two tugs in 1985 as master was the Seaforth Commander and Victor and were 7000 BHP. But believe they were ex Norwegian vessels, but still below what charterers wanted. JS

[John Arton]

Hello John
As far as I know, they did not automatically accompany a Convoy, but as you say, towed ships that were nearer to 'home'.
If you know what Tugs your Dad served on then you should be able to track their voyages and that would answer your question. Good luck

Brenda

Brenda
My father was captain on the saint olaves, samsonia and prudent as listed in his discharge book. I have tried the national archives to see if his salvage awards were listed but no joy. I know that salvages carried out had to be reported to the admiralty but I don't think any of those reports have every been made available to the public. I have a letter to him from the admiralty stating that they " still haven't received his services rendered to the SS Ledall" so I know that any salvage performed or any towage done had to be reported as salvage money was paid to the crew by the admiralty, something that often caused friction between the crews of the salvage tugs and those of the royal navy. I have also tried searching for the voyage record cards at the London guildhall museum, but no joy.
Rgds
J.A.

[Hugh]

"still haven't received his services rendered to the SS Ledall"

Can you check the spelling on that ship John - I don't see her.

I have also tried searching for the voyage record cards at the London guildhall museum, but no joy.

V.R.C. and London Guildhall won't help you John.
Those, like your father who served on DSRT, on T.124 Agreements, were effectively on RN ships so you wont find movement details for HM Ships in MN files. You will find some details in Admiralty files at TNA and in convoy records.
For the movents of HM Ships including DSRT you would need to look in the following files at Kew - ADM 199 - https://discovery.nationalarchives.g.../r/h/C11113086 they are not online though so you would have to ask Kew for the specific ship within the specified file.

You don't state when your father served on those DSRT but I can give you this information.
St. OLAVES. She took part in convoy HG.20 on 25.2 – 6.3 1940. Grounded and declared a total loss, off Duncansby Head, Scotland on 21 September 1942.
SAMSONIA – convoy HX.256.
PRUDENT - ADM 1/23188 took part in the salvage of the Dutch ss MELISKERK in 1943.

In January 1943 a policy was implemented for sailing Rescue Tugs with Trans-Atlantic convoys and to establish a Rescue Tug Pool Base at Campbeltown with a Western Base in Newfoundland. With this the Tugs became
effectively part of the Escort Group and worked in conjunction with their own attendant escort trawler. The two Bases provided administration, rest and recreation for two [sic] or two vessels. With the deployment of Tugs to
support preparations for Operation Overlord (the Normandy landings) it appears that direct escort support to convoys had to be reduced.

A good read all sourced here: https://www.rfaa-london.org.uk/app/w...Draft-Tugs.pdf

Regards
Hugh

[j.sabourn]

#5. Pleased to see I was not the only one who gave himself a discharge John. Unless it was mandatory during war conditions to do so. The master on a ship did not require a discharge In his book if he had one.He was the only one who was not required to do so. I purely gave myself a discharge to make the job easier as regards seatime for the then regualary proof of seatime , otherwise it meant an updating of knowledge brought in , in latter years, but certainly not required during the war for that reason. Cheers JS

[happy daze john in oz]

John, why does the captain not require a discharge book if I read that correctly?

Is it not some form of proof of who he is?

[j.sabourn]

#8 The master of a ship used to only need his certificate for proof of his ability to command a vessel . His certificate number was inserted on the ships Register of ownership and he was to all intents and purposes was recognised as the Owner of such in the owners absence . The master also had no lien a ship like the crew had of any monies owed them if the vessel had to be sold to pay its debts , they where the first of the debtors paid was the crew. The master would if he wanted paying to take the owner to court privately. Very few masters used their discharge book after becoming master , why should they ? When the maritime law came into being round about in the 80s where one had to prove 2 years seatime in every 5 years it became useful as keeping a record of seatime as contained the ships stamp etc.
JS
If he needs proof of Identity he had his seamans ID card or Passport. His old ID card even had his fingerprints on.
JS.......

[Graham Shaw]

[Hugh

Re: Deep sea rescue tugs of ww2

Originally Posted by John Arton
"still haven't received his services rendered to the SS Ledall"



Can you check the spelling on that ship John - I don't see her]

This is just a suggestion. Could 'ledall' not perhaps be interpreted as LEDA II, referring to the second vessel with the name Leda.-the name Leda II not being officially her name of course .In this case it might refer to the second Royal Naval vessel named HMS LEDA,a minesweeper built in 1938.(The first HMS LEDA was a torpedo gunboat from 1893-1920.)


...log of U 435 below re LEDA.

At 06.25 hours on 20 September 1942, U-435 fired one torpedo at convoy QP-14 west of Bear Island and observed a hit on a freighter after 46 seconds. After two torpedoes were fired at 06.26 and 06.29 hours, two detonations were heard after 4 minutes 10 seconds and 4 minutes 30 seconds. A torpedo fired at 06.28 hours missed, because it was a surface runner. Strelow claimed one ship sunk, one damaged and one possibly damaged. However, no hits can be confirmed by Allied records. At 06.31 hours, the U-boat fired one torpedo at a destroyer and observed the ship sinking after being hit 1 minute 25 seconds later. The reported destroyer was the fleet minesweeper HMS Leda (J 93) (LtCdr A.H. Wynne-Edwards, RN), which sank after being hit on the starboard side between the boiler rooms by one torpedo southwest of Spitsbergen. The vessel was repatriating 18 Merchant Navy seamen from the Navarino and River Afton that had been sunk in the ill-fated convoy PQ-17 in July 1942, three of the latter were lost in the sinking together with one officer and 43 ratings of the minesweeper. The commander, six officers, 65 crew members and 15 repatriated seamen were picked up by HMS Ayrshire (FY 225) (T/Lt L.J.A. Gradwell, DSC, RNVR), HMS Northern Gem (FY 194) (SkrLt W.J.V. Mullender, DSC, RD, RNR) and HMS Seagull (J 85) (A/Cdr C.H. Pollock, RN); 32 of them were later transferred to the British rescue ship Rathlin.




Apart from that I cannot see any merchant vessel in any of the usual databases of that era with the name "LEDALL"


Graham