Garston Docks c1909 - description of ships requested

[Tony Gillam]

I am seeking information about the types of shipping shown in the attached image. Either to discuss in this Forum, or direct me to a forum about ship history please.
I am creating next year's calendar for the London & North Western Railway Society, and this is an image from our archive. The LNWR had extensive banana and coal traffic through the Stalbridge Dock at Garston (Mersey). The caption at present is rather bare:
[Photo ref.LNWMC438] Garston. Stalbridge Dock. View across the decks of sailing ships towards the wagon tipplers at the far side of the dock. C1909. Crewe Official MC438.

The silhouette of the railway company structures for tipping coal into bunkers is visible in the centre of the image. I thought it would be good to add in some information about the types of vessel and their probable traffic.
All help gratefully received. Tony Gillam

073 LNWMC438 - small Copy.jpg

[Ivan Cloherty]

As far as can be ascertained from the photo working from left (as viewed) nearest vessel appears to be schooner rigged, the next vessel (with man standing) appears to be a Hulk or dumb barge, but has had a mast previously as the stay shoes can still be seen on the port and starboard sides near the sheer strakes, there is also a what appears to be a hand operated warping winch aft of the holds. The next vessel appears to be a derigged Thames Barge with the mast still in place, but no boom visible, the next vessel with men working in the cross tree was in all probability a Barque with the yardarm removed for maintenace, outboard of her appears to be another schooner, on the other side of the river/dock can be seen a funnel of a steam , from its size probably a tug to assist the sail powered vessels to the Staiths.

As for trade the usual trade from Garston or Mersey ports was coal to Belfast, Dundalk, Dublin and Cork, most return cargoes would have been cement clinker from Dundalk.

Specialised coals from the Cumbrian mines also went to various steel mills in the Cardiff, Barry area, but as far afield as Antwerp, We used to load Welsh coal in Barry for Antwerp, discharge it, move across the dock in Antwerp and load coal for Cardiff, not all coals are the same.

Mostly the coals shipped in the NE England ended up in the Thames and Solent

Hope that helps a little

[Tony Taylor]

As far as can be ascertained from the photo working from left (as viewed) nearest vessel appears to be schooner rigged, the next vessel (with man standing) appears to be a Hulk or dumb barge, but has had a mast previously as the stay shoes can still be seen on the port and starboard sides near the sheer strakes, there is also a what appears to be a hand operated warping winch aft of the holds. The next vessel appears to be a derigged Thames Barge with the mast still in place, but no boom visible, the next vessel with men working in the cross tree was in all probability a Barque with the yardarm removed for maintenace, outboard of her appears to be another schooner, on the other side of the river/dock can be seen a funnel of a steam , from its size probably a tug to assist the sail powered vessels to the Staiths.

As for trade the usual trade from Garston or Mersey ports was coal to Belfast, Dundalk, Dublin and Cork, most return cargoes would have been cement clinker from Dundalk.

Specialised coals from the Cumbrian mines also went to various steel mills in the Cardiff, Barry area, but as far afield as Antwerp, We used to load Welsh coal in Barry for Antwerp, discharge it, move across the dock in Antwerp and load coal for Cardiff, not all coals are the same.

Mostly the coals shipped in the NE England ended up in the Thames and Solent

Hope that helps a little

I grew up in a pit village in North Durham, the seams were not as big as the coastal pits but the coal was good quality "steam" coal. It was transported to Jarrow via the Bowes incline rail system and blended with the more easily mined (relatively easy compared to the inland mines) coal from under the North Sea.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Tony G
I sailed into Garston on the 21st April 52 on the Basford with a load of logs from St Johns Newfoundland after one of the most horrendous trips I ever made at sea, including going over the side in a Gale. We at first where not allowed to enter the locks as we had a bad list with our deck cargo of logs on No three hatch hanging over the side, held there by the chains. We eventually where allowed to enter by the Harbour Master, They had to get a man in a big basket lifted by a crane to knock the stenhouse slips away and the cargo of logs on No three hatch went into the Docks.
We paid off and left them to it.
Cheers Des

[Tony Gillam]

Many thanks for that analysis. Gives me a good starter on a useful caption. Cheers, Tony

[Tony Gillam]

Thank you. On the original there are least six steam tugs visible. I attach a partial blowup of a different steam vessel that I don't think is a tug as the wheel is where the tow ropes would should splay out. So how would you describe it please, and is 'schooner' sufficient label for the ship outboard from there? Many thanks in advance. Tony
A 073 LNWMC438 detail B.jpg

[Ivan Cloherty]

Thank you. On the original there are least six steam tugs visible.

Perhaps sending the original in full may be helpful.

Perhaps you are aware already but not all tugs tow from the stern, some are 'alongside' tugs made fast outboard of the vessel they are berthing, (still used on the Lower Dartmouth Ferry), others are push tugs used for decades on the Continent rivers as well as Mississippi and Missouri.

The steam vessel in your photo does not appear to be a tug as there are hatches for'd of the funnel housing, but I do pity the helmsman's view

[Tony Gillam]

Thank you for the confirmation of my exact question. The full extent of the photo is shown in my first post, but I've been limited for resolution by this site's image size rules.
All the best, Tony

[Doc Vernon]

Thank you for the confirmation of my exact question. The full extent of the photo is shown in my first post, but I've been limited for resolution by this site's image size rules.
All the best, Tony

Tony
I dont think that the Size Rules will affect the Resolutions too much, even in your original Pic you have posted, looks fine to me !
Pictures (Images) use a lot of data, so the site has to try and Limit this.
Thanks for the Post though!
Cheers

I have now actually resized and lightened the Pic, still within the Site Ruling. Your original size was much smaller than allowed!

073 LNWMC438 - small Copy.jpg