Honours System

[Louis the fly]

At one time in our long British history receiving a knighthood must have been the highest achievement one could rise to, the very pinnacle of a life.
Today there are multitudes of people with the title of Sir or Dame. Being a Dame does not sound so grand, a throwback to the early American gangster movies. Members of pop groups, sports people, film and television stars, political donors and many more can expect to be honoured.

Another of our strange and unique customs is awarding honours in the name of an empire which no longer exists. The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire is one example. Princess Anne was recently performing this event dressed in a naval uniform with medals on her chest giving her a port list. Other countries may follow this practice with Italy announcing Member of Roman Empire.

The previous Tory government had planned to award an honorary Knighthood to an Australian aboriginal man who was recorded by helicopter running at incredible speed through the outback, undoubtedly the fastest man on earth.
After six months the plan had to be abandoned because no one could catch him.

[Les Woodard]

My opinion for what it is worth (not much I reckon) is that titles like medals have been overdone and have lost all bloody meaning. When ever they show marchers wearing enough medals to sink a battleship. The one that stands out for me is the ones wearing one or two medals. I reckon those persons really earned them. Not detracting from others that have earned them, it just that the earned ones are overshadowed with the array of service medals. Lets face it how the feck can I also have a UK veterans for service in the RFA when all I only was a bloody galley boy. Only got it because the brother in law chased it up for me. Same with titles. Only have to get a few songs in the hit parade to become a Sir. How many councils here in OZ have Lord mayors it is bloody stupid the money wasted on these titles for sure. Besides once they are kicked out of office loose that title.

[Des Jenkins]

I have always paid homage to the people who fought in the First and second world wars, my Grandfather paid the price when he was gassed in France, my father was in the MN , and my brother was in the MN in the second world war. they deserved every accolade. I was on the R.F.A. wave Baron , went to Malaya so got that badge which is all it is. A few years ago the bloke who used to lead the ANZAC march up in the Blue Mountains was found to have never left Australia to fight, and didn't deserve any medals, very humiliating for him when he was found out. Last year I went up the R.S.L. on Anzac day and there where more grandsons wearing medals that the men who had gone overseas to fight.
May they all rest in Peace.
Des

[happy daze john in oz]

Des, men like my GF who spent four days on a life boat when his ship was torpedoed.

I see Donald thinks if he can solve the Ukraine situation he may be in line for the Nobel peace prize.
Only he could think that way!!!!

[j.sabourn]

My formal education was not in the realms of pre war political geography so maybe someone who was better educated than myself maybe able to supply a few more accurate answers to a few more questions of what fings used to be pre WW2 . Question one . What was the legitimate language of the Ukraine and what was the ruling influence of its place in the world. Question 2. The same applies to Taiwan or better known as Formosa in former
times ? Both leaders of both countries maybe working on the assumptions that both were originally part of Their own Empires. Russia during the Czars time in fact considered Alaska was under their control and sold to the USA
when short of cash. This can easily see on the net and have to believe. Most European countries had empires of various sizes , so apart from picking one’s noses and chewing it , everyone was doing it.Did Russia and China think that they were only asking for what the believe belonged to them in the first place ??? Maybe there might be more to the stories we are fed than meets the eye. What the world need is for it to know what the past has had done to it to cause so much mayhem in our lifetime. The honest and true history of the world’s land masses could certainly use a good historian not frightened to tell the truth once and for all. And if we are beset with tyrants then get rid of them whatever it takes . JS

[Les Woodard]

This is a bit of history that depicts the senseless meaning of war that it is those in power that cause it as the men from opposing sides if given the chance would not fight one another. Maybe if they got the generals to slog it out in the ring would be a better outcome. If I recall the general gave the order to open fire from afar to disrupt this peace between those on the front. What fecking barstewards they where and still are

The World War I Christmas Truce refers to a series of unofficial ceasefires that occurred on the Western Front, primarily between British and German soldiers, on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day of 1914. During this time, soldiers from both sides emerged from their trenches, exchanged gifts, sang carols, and even played football in "No Man's Land".

[j.sabourn]

#1 Louis I couldn’t answer your query as was only on my iPad in blog form yesterday but today is back to normal for me.Some extracts from the official forward of the Investitures.
Fifteen times a year some 130 men and women come to Buckingham Palace to receive from the sovereign awards in the New Year and Sovereigns Birthdays Honours Lists. For most of them ,and for the two or three guests they are allowed to bring with them , this will be the first and only time that they will pass through those gates.more preamble on this . But will leave to your imagination this comes from the Lord Chamberlains office at Buckingham Palace.
The Honours System itself has another Short Foreward by Winston Churchill and said in the House of Commons in March 1944….” …The object of presenting medals , Stars and Ribbons is to give pride and pleasure those who have deserved them”.
As regards the origin of knighthood
A youth destined to follow a military career normally began his apprenticeship as a Page attending tournaments and ceremonies .He learned learned the techniques of was as a squire, following his patron on campaigns as a Banner Bearer and Weapon Bearer. When fully proficient , he was ready for knighthood and received the accolade by being touched on the shoulder by a flat sword. This ceremony might be performed by the king as part of an elaborate feast or by his Lord on the battlefield .The new knight often received his own banners, arms
titles and appointment to an Order of Chivalry. Although knights who are members of an Order take precedence over knights Bachelor, members of the latter group belong to the most ancient title of Honour known in Britain.
That is the official ancient explanation given out as a description and comes from the Palace itself.
Orders of Chivalry evolved from Holy Orders a fraternity of monks and friars who observed an accepted code of conduct in the monasteries of the medieval Catholic Church . The military direction to these orders developed when the Crusaders took up arms to defend the Christian faith.There are another 28 pages of official information for the worthy scholar , but today I am retired and my finger is getting tired on this iPad. Cheers JS

[j.sabourn]

Further reading on same subject which I have never read and don’t have any intention can be found ..
Bedells, Lt. Cdr. JHB.The British Honours System ( Heraldry Society 1974)
De La Bere,Brigadier Sir Ivan,The Queens orders of chivalry.(Spring Books )
De La Noy,Michael,The Honours System ( Allison and Busby 1986)
Hall,Donald, British Orders , Decorations and Medals (Balfour Publications 1973)
The Register of the Victoria Cross ( This England Books 1988)
The register of the George Cross (. “. “. “. )

Wilson, Sir Arnold & Captain J.H.F.McEwan, Gallantry Oxford University Press 1939 )

JS.

[Louis the fly]

Doesn't answer the fundamental question John, there have been many empires in world history but we are the only country to award honours in the name of an empire which does not exist.

[j.sabourn]

The Empire as was is now the Commonwealth. What is left of it. France Germany Italy Portugal Spain Russia and a few more no doubt all had there colony’s world wide. Maybe Trump thinks it is still in vogue . I think you’ll find most of them still,have their own honour systems , JS

The only Order I can see that mentions Britain is the Order of the British Empire.
Previous to the late establishment of this Order in 1917 because it was thought all Orders should be available to all classes and consequently the order of the British Empire was put out as available to all.This was King George V. And is open to all.
The Orders as I remember them and were probably closed to most are/were The Orders as of the Garter,The Order of the Thistle, The Order of the Bath, The of Saint Michael & Saint George,The Royal Victorian Order, The Order of Merit, The Orderof the Companions of Honour, Distinguished Service Order, Imperial Service Order, The Royal Victorian Chain,
Medals at Investiture level are VC, DSO,GC, GM,RRC,DSC,MC,DFC,AFC,MM, QGM, Polar Medal.

Today being ANZAC day and this being a bank holiday here attended the service a hundred yards from my front door. If one wants to see the display of medals one would spend sometime counting them. ex service personnel wearing about 20or so was quite common. However I assume most of these were campaign ribbons
and doubt if many were for war like efforts.Nearly or very similar to US personnel where it must be obligatory to wear. JS