Arms trade

[Louis the fly]

Don't really know what brought this back to mind. Perhaps the coverage of the ongoing war in Syria.

In 1968 I joined the Ilorin Palm in Liverpool. We sailed for Lagos, Nigeria, with a full shipment of arms and war equipment for the Nigerian army.
When I got home there were T.V. appeals for donations to help the innocent victims of war. No mention, of course, of our governments involvement.
A few ships later in 1970 I signed on another Palm boat, the Ikeja, this time we were carrying medical supplies. It was estimated there were over 1 million civilian casualties of the civil war.
The arms trade has never stopped but now with our Merchant fleets just a part of history, flags of convenience and multi national crews we are not there to see it.

[John Pruden]

Louis how many of our lads are in Birmingham hospitals shot and blown up by munitions from our and the amercan arms factories? we moun that our lads had land rover they were not armour plated enough yet the IEDs can blow an 80 abrames ton tank to bits we gave them the stuff in the first place so what do we expect no money to be made out of peace and lives mean nothing they are in the killing trade!!!!jp

[happy daze john in oz]

I often watch the images on TV of the various wars going on around the globe and wonder where do they get the ammunitions ans weapons from. No one works in these countries so no maney for arms, however someone supplies them. Is this a case of the West including USA fighting Russia and other countries under the guise of another war??

[John Arton]

Can any of you recall the incident where a small cargo ship, the "Blue Something" disappeared from AIS after transiting the English Channel and was later found off the coast of West Africa and the Russian crew were arrested on suspicion of arms smuggling.
Well when I watched footage of the crew being landed in Moscow to face trial the first guy off the plane was one of the Russian chief officers I had sailed with. He later went into the Office as an Operator and quickly made a name for himself as the most unliked Operator of all times. He eventually got the heave ho due to an incident where he was trying to persuade a Master to falsify Bills of Ladings. The next thing is he turns up as a ship owner operating chemical tankers out of his home port in the Baltic States before being convicted of arms smuggling.
There must be many cases of arms being smuggled out of the ex. USSR states and sold on the black market easily just to make an unscrupulous person a few hundred thousand dollars. After the War in Yugoslavia some of my Croatian and Serbian mates were telling me how you could pick up any sorts of arms and ammo for next to nothing from ex. Yugoslavian army depots with crooked generals in charge.
rgds
JA

[Ivan Cloherty]

Whilst working in Ethiopia I was on food/fertiliser projects, and although I had food ships outside waiting for berths in Assab and doing my damndest to get them in, the Soviet ships carrying arms and military equipment always got priority berthing, in four years I never saw a Soviet ship bring food in and I did a few surveys on them for cargo damage at request of local Lloyds Office. I did find the Soviet captains very friendly, always had western music playing and Johnny Walker black label on the desk after a survey, being called Ivan didn't do me any harm. They also rendered my Dutch/British technicians working with me medical assistance when required, going to the local hospital would have only aggravated the ailments. We never discussed politics only music, local corruption and of course another subject, what the hell was it...............................oh yes .......................women!

[alf corbyn]

yes the uk, usa, france etc all deal in arms to other countries. how else can they test and sell them?.

[Louis the Amigo]

Hi shipmates, Unloading metal boxes' to a lighter at anchorage, many years ago place coast of South Africa, Mr Mandela was in jail at that time.

[Louis the fly]

In Ivan's post he mentions food aid.
In Karachi a ship which had just sailed from the berth we had taken had unloaded many tons of grain in sacks stamped as food aid with a U.S. flag.
All the sacks were stowed on pallets and left on the quay.
The following day a ship docked flying the Greek flag. The sacks were then loaded onto her and she sailed.
The Greek ship may have been taking the grain to another port in Pakistan but it is more likely that the aid had been sold and would never feed the poor and starving.

[Ivan Cloherty]

In Ivan's post he mentions food aid.
In Karachi a ship which had just sailed from the berth we had taken had unloaded many tons of grain in sacks stamped as food aid with a U.S. flag.
All the sacks were stowed on pallets and left on the quay.
The following day a ship docked flying the Greek flag. The sacks were then loaded onto her and she sailed.
The Greek ship may have been taking the grain to another port in Pakistan but it is more likely that the aid had been sold and would never feed the poor and starving.

Diversion of food aid was quite rampant Louis, often turned up in the local markets, where I worked in countries Sierra Leone, Chad, Togo, Cameroon, Guinea Bissau, Sudan, Ethiopia, Djibouti
Kenya, still in the bags marked Aid from, USA, EEC, Britain etc, most of it transported to the market by the military, some Govts even rebagged it, showing themselves as the donors. The good intentioned people rattling their tin cans in front of your face have no real idea of what goes on. Remember Christmas begins at home and you can be sure no guns will be purchased with your hard earned cash.

[leratty]

just a thought, has anyone ever done a survey-study of what actually occurs with donations to charities? In other words where the real funds go, what % actually reaches the source meant, how much is skimmed off for 'overheads' etc, what price is paid for goods bought & sent? I do know a lot of the employees are paid very well, I also note whenever you see UN Peace Keepers they are always staying in the best hotels & driving brand new 4X4's etc. Syria being the last lot I bothered to take note of, the gas inspectors. Guess their vehicles were used to get them back to Lebanon or Turkey though suggest in the main the vehicles majority of equipment etc is just left behind?
It is like charity in UK now days, just been there for six weeks much dinner table discussion as to the growth industry being homeless shelters etc, how it is a churn & burn biz whereby they get funds from gov't-London council (Boris) paid to take someone in, paid along the way from those parties social security then paid by former when sending-referring usually at end of month... them on to another mob often affiliated who in turn get the initial gov't funds for taking party in & game starts all over again. Apparently staffed to the ying yang by well meaning & paid staff mostly young (some also have well meaning volunteers) who, former, have or are doing some sort of social degree...Just another scam. Will it though make the press or will it just carry on with the likes of Boris getting plaudits for his charitable works etc in regards the London homeless & others profiting from it? Suggest the latter where is the money going everyone is asking is it just a giant employment scheme for the workers in these places along with pot of browny points for various people, yep reckon so. Oh where is the church in all of this very quite..... heard some horrific stories of parties going to a local church for assistance & being less than polity refereed to the local council or police station etc. One we were told about said apparently, "he did not have time to talk" to this pair of homeless people "as he had to prepare for mass" (at 9.30am in the morning?) Seriously what does one say to that?
Ivan agree with your last sentence hope many take note however doubt it.