M.v. Derbyshire

[John Arton]

Don't know how accurate this will be but probably worth a look at.
Rgds
J.A.
https://gcaptain.com/canadian-premie...eid=3b737aa316

[Captain Kong]

Mark Fooks, a young OS, one of two who survived the sinking of the POOL FISHER, in November 1979, went to the pool in Liverpool when he was ready to go back to sea, and said , "Give us the biggest ship you have got, the small ones sink under me,"
They gave him the DERBYSHIRE, he and a few others flew to Japan to await the arrival of DERBYSHIRE, she did not arrive, so they flew home again. Lucky a econd time.

[John Callon]

This programme was shown on UK TV around November time last year. The ships crew are all portrayed by actors and without giving anything away it is well worth watching.
Regards,
John C.

[Stan Carter]

watched this programme three nights ago, found it to be very well presented and informative. amazing to see the complex equipment used and the clarity of the photos obtained from those depths. if the rest of the series are as well put together as this episode it's going to be a good series.
regards, stan.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi John.
Didn't they find that the beams that were to run the length of the ship only went halfway and were joined amidships? allowing the ship to bend in the middle.
Des

[Colin Wood]

All ships bend and large bulk carriers are always hogged or sagged. Around the 30's and 40's, Greek and other ship owners were known to permanently hog vessels with the view of putting the Plimsol line higher so they could load more cargo. We carried out an experiment at DBCT loading large coal carriers using a laser beam down the deck and measuring the deflections of the deck, the results were quite frightening, showing that the length of the ship showed a series of waves up and down. some quite large.
I think it was a series of P & O bulker's which were fitted with recording strain gauges amidships as an experiment by some expert body. Don't know of the results.
When only part loading coal ships it was quite common to have them shift between berths and ports with over a metre hog or sag.

[John Arton]

Believe there was always questions regarding the junction between the longitudinal framing of the cargo hull part and the transverse framing aft for the engine room.
In 69 the Beaverfir was fitted with strain guages consisting of metal strips fitted to the deck that weren't connected to mechanical counters in a unit housed in the she wheelhouse. We would record manually the counter readings and send off the sheets to the British ship research society who had fitted the gear. They were on board after finishing the installation and on shifting berth in the Vic. docks, were horrified at how the readings altered, saying that we must be daft to actually go to sea on the ship.
Rgds
J.A.

[Tony Taylor]

Believe there was always questions regarding the junction between the longitudinal framing of the cargo hull part and the transverse framing aft for the engine room.
In 69 the Beaverfir was fitted with strain guages consisting of metal strips fitted to the deck that weren't connected to mechanical counters in a unit housed in the she wheelhouse. We would record manually the counter readings and send off the sheets to the British ship research society who had fitted the gear. They were on board after finishing the installation and on shifting berth in the Vic. docks, were horrified at how the readings altered, saying that we must be daft to actually go to sea on the ship.
Rgds
J.A.

John, you are correct in my mind.
My close friend, a master mariner but died about 20 years ago, was on a sister ship of the Derbyshire and he recounted to me long before any more recent evidence, that they were forever welding up cracks in that area and inspecting for cracks on a very regular basis.
I can tell you his name and some background as I believe you may be about the same era as him and he did his tickets at SSMTC

[Glenn Nicholas]

Twenty years of research is enough to have added safety measures, it's a disgusting time period and exhausting wait to upgrade merchant vessels, however.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XTEjRkTsjdw

I actually rewatched this documentary about how quickly it went down, it's quite remarkable and terrifying to say I had an out of body experience and dreamed the exact same thing the other night.

It's pretty stupid to say this now after the sinking, but the way it works, carrying 160,000 tons and navigating through the eye of a storm—indeed, a cyclone—with a captain who can't see the bow, let alone its length, which doesn't allow even a pair of binoculars to see that the ship wasn't fully there at any point.

Even a competent sailor should be able to say now, "Look, let the storm calm down until it passes."
It's a sign of those times. Captain must keep schedule regardless upon the weather conditions. I'm surprised anyone was willing to set sail after this, let alone that they didn't lobby the IMO to introduce pilot control to replace the crew below decks since this happened.

Now, let's suppose someone refused to cross the ship's path and didn't want to follow the captain's orders, so they were arrested on board. However, because they were blinded during the storm, the place of arrest was the bow of the ship. At least there the crew could have figured out what was happening, as the out-of-body experience tested the ship's integrity.

What we witnessed is either a negligent crew or a suggestion. What was needed in this case was for the captain to personally report or call the chief engineer on watch and request that these rounds be completed every hour, as it was an essential requirement.

This indicates that the engineering department had more power than the bridge department, so the manpower controlled the engine room, so the captain was not a force to be reckoned with and had complete control of his ship. Another point worth highlighting is the responsibility of the fourth engineer or junior engineer on watch, or the motorman, and also the wiper, to perform hourly water integrity checks in each compartment. It's worth mentioning that I don't believe the forward spaces were checked even throughout the storm.
What usually happens between the engineer and the fourth engineer, or at least in the third engineer's communications area, given that it's a tough competition of minds to advance, is that the engineer on watch is someone who should be chosen for the fourth or junior engineer. Even better, the motorman's job!
I've reviewed the crew list, so there's good news: there's a crew member who meets double the requirements for every position on board, including day and night watches. However, engineer rounds are exhaustive, and long watches often occur, as the remaining hours of fatigue and silence override work ethic or engineering standards.
I don't know much about the engineer officers of the 1980s: were they British or did they speak English as a second language? I disagree with the latter, as the engine room was quite old-fashioned for British crew, although it was the exception: the lower ranks, so-called General Purpose 1, were made their way in the following decade. Otherwise, were the other crew members ****** and Malaysian? I doubt they were part of this engineering team.

I would also like to point out, in relation to the strange accident, that the third engineer had died several years earlier, indicating that activities in the engine room may not have been satisfactory for working in order.

I don't know, but since they were records and that was engineering, they found nothing more than what the deck officers said, which reveals who was responsible for the sinking.

[j.sabourn]

Glen I had a Quick Look through some of the answers to the blog and one caught my eye but am not going to answer the blog itself because I don’t want to be drawn into an argument with anyone , plus I notice that you are from Whitley Bay my old home , my last abode there was 5 St. Vincent’s way on Whitley Lodge estate.the one that caught my eye was some fishing boat that went Ashore and why didn’t the skipper lay an anchor. I worked a number of years offshore and during my time was on about 6 fishing vessels so called converted to the oil Industry , a lot of my North Sea time was on proper supply boats and this would of been no problem,due to the fact they usually had 29/15 fathom shackles on each anchor . I have been on at least 1 fishing vessel so called conversion to other duties which had no workable anchors of the normal much shorter length . Whenever I was above 60 degrees north and coming back to Aberdeen and made the coastline it was always in the back of my mind what action I would take if caught on a Lee shore , and this involved laying the anchors to lengthen the time for going aground. Whenever If you can’t do this like the bits of crap that still exist to this day one crosses the fingers legs arms and every crossable item and hopes for the best. Most of the replies I glanced at at vessels in distress were obviously not from seafarers . I wonder how some of these blowhards would react if in a position of peril.. Anyhow is the Empress ballroom still going , believe the Rex has jumped ship ,pity about the Spanish city as well . Regards JS
PS you aren’t any relation to Brian Nicholas who I served my time with and both his brother and father were in the same company, they all lived in Hexham at the time. JS.