Manz run

[Alex Macdonald]

Hi ,i have met an old shipmate we joined the Port Fairy September 1962 paid off August 1963.What
we can't agree on is i say it was one run shipmate says it was a double header .i think the fog is setting
in both our heads.we only done one trip with Port Line i'am hoping one of you regulars could put us right
Thank You
Alex Macdonald.

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Alex,

I'm thinking that your mate could be right. As a general rule the Manz Run lasted about a year, sometimes a little less than that, sometimes a little more and your own time on the Port Fairy would fit into those parameters. My own experience is a prime example of what constituted a Manz Run.

In December, 1957, at Newcastle-upon-Tyne, I signed on the Port Huon as J.O.S. From the Tyne we went to Antwerp and back to London before going down to N.Z.(via Panama and a brief courtesy stop off Pitcairn Island). After about four months round the Kiwi coast, discharge and load, we went back through the Panama Canal to La Guaria, Venezuela, then to New York, Philadelphia, Newport News and Savannah. Then it was back through the P.C. and down to Australia where we did the regulation three or four months round the coast. Finally, via Panama, went to Kingston, Jamaica, before moving on to Boston, Mass., where a new crew was waiting to relieve us. Those wishing to re-sign fresh articles were given the opportunity, but with Xmas three days away most of us elected to pay-off and were flown home to London. It was my understanding that Port Line's policy at the time was to relieve a crew once they had completed a double-header. Whether other companies engaged in that trade, like N.Z.S.C. and Shaw Savill etc., adopted a similar practice I couldn't say, but I'm inclined to think so.

Alex,I hope that this has been of some assistance to you.


................................cheers, Roger.

[Alan Lamond]

Alex,

It was my understanding that a doubleheader was virtually two standard trips continuously(i.e. 2 trips lasting about four and a half to five months each) between the Americas and Oz/NZ. I think a MANZ run did not involve going to the Americas, but hey, I have been known to be wrong.

Alan

[len mazza]

Hi,
My only experience of meat boats was the middle bit of a Manz run on the Port New Plymouth in 1971.
The reguler Pl' blokes told me we were now on the MANZ Run,USA, Canada, then back to NZ.
I guess it could be called a double header,two loadings on the NZ coast on the same set of articles.

Len.

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Abadan Jan, Alan (Lamond) and shipmates...........I refer to posts #3 and 4.

I must take issue with the your comments. Firstly, Jan, my post #2 was made in answer to the query by Alex concerning his time spent on the 'Port Fairy' whilst engaged on the MANZ run - Did his ship make one trip down to Oz or N.Z or was it a 'double-header' (two-trips)? Like most ex-seaman members on this site I realise that when signing 'Foreign' articles a British seaman agreed to crew that vessel for a period of two years, unless the ship returned to the U.K. before that period expired, in which case he (or she) could claim release from those articles.

As explained to Alex, although under no obligation to do so, it was the general practice of Port Line to replace the crews of M.A.N.Z ships after the completion of two round trips in that particular trade. It was my understanding that although a member of the initial crew still had about a year to run on his original agreement, should he wish to remain with the ship he would be required to pay-off and then re-sign fresh articles with the replacement crew. By doing this it obviously negated any problems that might arise should the next double-header take longer than a year to complete, as it often did. When my crew left the 'Port Huon' in Boston, the carpenter and one or two other crew- members (non- deck crowd) did opt to stay on. The policy of changing crews after one year or so probably serves as a good example of the 'humane' treatment Port Line extended towards her crews. They were an excellent company to work for, at least I always thought so. Jan, you are most certainly right when you say that ships engaged on the M.A.N.Z. trade often remained away from the U.K. for several years, as, I believe, was the case with my own ship, the 'Port Huon', after I left her.

Alan, your suggestion that the M.A.N.Z. run 'did not involve going to the Americas' could not be further from the truth. The letters M.A.N.Z. (meaning Montreal-Australia-New Zealand) did not imply that ships engaged in that trade only went to Montreal when at the northern end of the 'loop'. Some ships did not even go to Canada, calling only at ports on the east coast of the U.S., nevertheless, they were all a recognised part of the M.A.N.Z. trade. Perhaps Len's (Mazza) comment in post #5 would tend to support this.

I hope this post does not serve to create further confusion.


......regards, Roger

[happy daze john in oz]

FRom memeory there were a number of NZSC ships that did both the MANZ run and 'double headers'. But many of the crew on those ships talked of a double header being the round trip from Oz to NZ twice on the one voyage. Some of the NZSC ships did runs between the two countries on general trading runs.
It would appear that the terms varied from shipping company to shipping company, as well as a different intepratation between crew members.
Of course with companies such as UCL the term 'Port Fairy' MANS and double headers would have a total different meaning to some of the crew.

[Alan Lamond]

Roger,

Regarding my previous (only) post, I had no sooner pressed the submit button when the name Montreal popped into my head as representing the "M" in MANZ, although I could not have put my hand on my heart that this was gospel. However now that you have stated that such is the case, I am quite happy to refute my previous statement.

Alan

[Mike Hall]

my very first trip to sea,was a manz run.on the avenue shipping company ship,the m.v.tyrone.
where we did most of the ports twice,would that be a double header ?.
the ports we visited are as follows.
starting august 24 1958 and ending july 6 1959
london,cornerbrook,quebec,three rivers,montreal,new york,philadelphia,savannah,colon, balboa,
auckland,wellington,lyttleton,dunedin,bluff,wellin gton,napier,auckland,balboa,colon,
charleston,philadelphia,new york,boston,st johns,new york,new jersey,philadelphia,newport news,
savannah,colon,balboa,auckland,wellington,lyttleto n,auckland,wellington,lyttleton,timaru,dunedin,
bluff,aden,suez,port said,genoa,liverpool.
i was 15 years old when i left and 16 years old when i came home.
i was also a lot wiser about what the world had to offer.

mike

[Les Woodard]

All I know about the MANZ run was when I signed on the Port Macquarie for a round trip to NZ like everyone else did espescially as about four on deck where on their last trip before swallowing the anchor. As soon as we let go they hoisted the Maple Leaf flag and that was the first we knew that we where on a MANZ run so Port Line where not always up front with their crews as to the intent of the voyage. As for articles being for two years. We had a few bebates about this and the result which might not be correct but one we accepted as fact was this. The company had to pay you of after two years under articles unless the ship was heading to a UK port so if your two years where up say in OZ and you hit every port between there and say London then you could be on that ship for well over two years. That was just mess room talk but could see the companies using something like that to suit their needs.

[Alex Macdonald]

Hi shipmates thank's to all who replied to my thread
I did'nt know that were so many runs came under MANZ,the run we did was London to Canada down the east coast of the states New York to Jamacia Panama City to NZ coast onward to the OZ coast then everything in reverse final leg New York to Glasgow Happy to be HOME