Deciphering Naval Record + Rules on Retainer Payment

[Yvonne Lynn]

Hello

My Dad was in the Merchant Navy in WW2. He died 25 years ago never knowing who his father was. I am using Ancestry DNA to track down who his father was. My Dad was conceived around March 1924 - he was born at Grey Mare Hill Farm, near Shotley Bridge, Consett/Hexham in December 1924.

I have found a possible father (if not an uncle/cousin) William Ronald Watson born 1893/94 and I have attached his Naval Record - he is also dead, of course. I was wondering if it was feasible that he could have been a casual farm labourer at the farm where my Dad was born. His normal trade before WW1 was fisherman and he was in the Royal Navy during WW1 and a lifeboatman in Berwick.

1. The record attached shows that William was receiving a retainer payment and that he was also unemployed in 1924. What were the rules about retainer payments? Did a person have to stay close to the sea/base in order to receive the retainer or was he paid just to be on stand by but he could travel around the local area?

William was in Berwick-upon-Tweed and my grandmother was potentially near Consett or in Sunderland so I am trying to work out if it was possible that they could have been in the same location. Ha Ha.

2. I can't read the remarks very well so I would appreciate it if someone could tell me what the remarks say?

3. Have you got any other ideas of how I can find out more about him? I really want a photo of him as I believe that he died as a single man, which means, of course that I may never prove that he was my grandfather but I will keep trying.

Thank you in anticipation of your help.

Yvonne

[Chris Allman]

Yvonne

These are the remarks on the left hand side of pages 1 and 2.

1st Page.

REMARKS ( left hand side )

N.R. 5005 / 22 / 1922 - 18.4.24

a. War Service to count double time for Gratuity and single time for medal.

b. Clothing allowance to be paid from date of demobilisation.

c. Peace retainer to be paid from date of enrolment in Rank.


Depot 16/11/23 - 19/11/23----------------------------- Chatham

Calliope 20/11/23 - 23/11/23 = 28 days -----------to

Hecla 24/11/23 - 13/12/23------------------------------ Berwick


Sat VG

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd Page ( left hand side )

Date of Enrolment 17 / 7 / 19


Next of Kin :- Mother :- Mary
73, Low Greens
Berwick on Tweed


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will try the other side when I can.

[Chris Allman]

Yvonne, remarks from right hand side of page 1. ( xxxxx indicates illegible writing )


Page 1 ( Right hand side )

24058 -/ 7 / 7 / 22 - Reply Berwick as to whether WATSON may postpone training.

To Berwick 12/7/22

Ref to Berwick for Rb2 27.7.22 xxxxxxxxxxxx Rb2 retainer cancelled. New Rb2 to Berwick 21/8/22.

To pay 6/6 balance of 9m No 18.

YR 377 to Berwick 15.3.23 re mans performance 3 1/2 years Fgn.
RV 2 to Berwick 31.5.23

GK 377 to xxxxxxxx 2.8.23 for KG2 for alteration of date of enrol. To agree with entry of 17.7.19.

Rep2 - record ammended and returned to Berwick on Tweed 13.8.23.

Hope this helps.

[Yvonne Lynn]

Thank you for your help. Do you know what the codes mean? Yvonne

[Chris Allman]

No idea at all I am afraid. I could guess maybe but will not as I could be wrong. Probably internal Form references / jargon.

[j.sabourn]

A retainer to my knowledge was just a monetary term that a shipowner would pay you to retain your services for future employment or until a ship came in for you to join. In 1963 I was changing companies and the company I was going with offered me 2 pounds a day to retain my services so to speak. I told them it was the proper wage or nothing. They put me on the normal wage. As said in a previous post as something similar to knowing people who have done similar whose good faith was not so good and disappeared going elsewhere. A retainer was a means of a shipowner foreseeing any future losses and trying to minimise them . Regards JS

Further to that people of today don’t realize that a lot of seamen on here and our era it was rare to have bank accounts and everything was cash in hand. A seaman who was married and had a family to support his employer was only commited to supply. 50 percent of his basic wage as an allotment. The receiver of such be it a wife or parent had. To line up on a set day at a shipping office to receive , my wife had to do this and this was in 1962. A person who had a bank account in those days was not so common, and even if they did most ship owners didn’t bother it was a line up every month.
Also if a seaman joined a ship broke he could if so inclined receive an advance note. From the master, but that advance note could not Be cashed until 3 days after the ship sailed so the only.way he could cash was by selling it at a discount to a local merchant , the discount was usually about 10% , so on a 10 pound advance note he lost one pound. Your Dad would have known all these types of drawbacks to be endured as part of the privilige of going to sea. JS

[Keith Tindell]

I must have really been ripped off with the advance notes in London, £5 advance note, we used to get £4. As you say, payment on pay off day was always cash. I can recall in 1961, paying off of a 15month trip with nearly £700, i drew some on pay off, but had to go back to London a couple of days later for the balance . A 2 bedroom cottage could be bought for approx £900 in those days, did i buy said cottage, did i hell, with several weeks leave, make whoopee, young and stupid, but by god did i enjoy it, kt

[j.sabourn]

#7... you and many others Keith. JS

[Keith at Tregenna]

Sorry, I am a bit confused as to if
you have given any of your dads,
dads details.

I will certainly try to assist if you can
clarify more.

Regards,

Keith.

.

[Yvonne Lynn]

Sorry, I am a bit confused as to if
you have given any of your dads,
dads details.

I will certainly try to assist if you can
clarify more.

Regards,

Keith.

.

Hi Keith

I put an attachment onto the original post showing my suspected dad's dad's naval record. His name was William Ronald Watson born 1893/4 Berwick-upon-Tweed. He was in RN in WW1 and his trade was fisherman and lifeboatman.

I noticed on the record that he was unemployed but received a retainer payment at the time my dad was conceived. As my grandmother came from Sunderland but gave birth near Shotley Bridge, I wondered if it was feasible that William would have been allowed to travel and still receive a retainer payment. I thought that the retainer payment may have tied him to Berwick.

Thanks

Yvonne