RMS Aragon

[John Arton]

Just as a matter of interest did any of ex. 2nd mates on here ever keep their "courses and distances" book that contained all those passages that you had worked out using rhumb line or great circle sailings?
I kept mine up to about 10 years ago when it got lost when doing a loft clearance.
Once totted up the total miles I had steamed in 30 odd years and although I cannot remember the exact total it was certainly in the million bracket.
rgds
JA

[j.sabourn]

#10... Dave how longs a piece of string. Took us 96 days once from BA to Japan, they had to send for cappy a few years later to sort the ship out. A mate of mine a Charlie Briggs or should say a BOT acquaintance from Sunderland was an apprentice on the old Geneton, open wheelhouse, no chippy, but still a happy ship. Believe he finished up as Blyths Harbour Master. Those were the days when the crowd made or broke a ship which was always your home and sanctuary whether it was dodging some girls irate father or a copper wishing to question you on some other skirmish ashore. Maybe your dodging the Panama canal could of been a number of reasons, money springs to mind, also some of your documentation may have not been up to date and ship may have been delayed, the only ones who would know were those there at the time. Panama in those days was under US control and was one of the only places in the world where the pilot had complete control of the ship. Once in their hands the ship wasn't going anywhere until they said so. Not for us to reason why, but to do and die, or words to that effect. Different ball game now and different players and refs. Cheers JS

[Evan Lewis]

Never went through ,at that Time. Though more than one, told of the time. When being ,"On the Wheel" of a a armed U.S. seviceman being alongside, ensuring the ordered course ,was adhered. To.
A bit intimidating . one would think?

[Ivan Cloherty]

Would be nice to know if Dave received the info in #12 and #19, I know he is a man of few words, 6 posts in 2 years, but it would be nice to know you haven't wasted your time

[Ivan Cloherty]

Never went through ,at that Time. Though more than one, told of the time. When being ,"On the Wheel" of a a armed U.S. seviceman being alongside, ensuring the ordered course ,was adhered. To.
A bit intimidating . one would think?

Never experienced that in the 50's and 60's even when carrying explosives, a regular occurence in PSNC. The US Canal pilots were the most relaxed people you could meet and willing to talk about how the canal functioned to cadets and the helmsman. Now discharging explosives in Cristobal or Balboa was a different matter altogether, then the army was in full attendance and you never discharged in those ports, the vessel was taken up a creek and the explosives discharged (and sometimes reloaded) there under Military armed supervision.

[j.sabourn]

My memories of the canal, they had their own tie up crews and helmsman. The only one required was the Chippy, and of course the mate on the bridge to use the telegraph as required. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

In PSNC we always used our own helmsman and I was helmsman a few times on transits. Also have photos of our own crew fore and aft, no strangers onboard, perhaps as PSNC had 2/4 ships thro every week they had exemptions. But in later years in Ropners on a few transits don't recall taking on Canal helmsmen or crew boys and I was on the bridge the whole transit.

[j.sabourn]

My memories must be different then Ivan. There were no ships ropes used going through the locks only 4 shore wires attached to the electric mules. The Chippy was required for the windlass only in an emergency. Cheers JS

[John Arton]

Going through the Panama canal on the C.P. forest product ships we used to have to have 6 pilots. 1 each side fwd, 1 each side on the bridge wings and 1 command pilot by the helm. I once asked why 6 when only 5 were needed for the locks, the reply given was "In case one of us drops dead". These were when the canal was staffed by the Americans.
The reason for so many pilots was not that the ships were Panamax but because of there hull design.
The 6 holds were all exactly the same size with their dimensions (I think 54 x 54 feet) designed so that standard packages of timber, plywood, rolls of Kraft Liner Board or Paper and packages of Pulp, could be stowed without the use of dunnage. Initially they were going to be fitted with slewing deck cranes but the outfit they were being built for on a long term charter (CTC) demanded that they be fitted with travelling Munck Gantry cranes. These cranes had roofs and side curtains fitted to them in order that they could provide cover for the hatch being worked and also the covers extended out over the quay side. The hatch covers were lab sections (6 in total, 3 either side) so opening just one section and parking a crane over that section, along with the rain curtains, enabled pulp and paper products to be worked in most conditions up in B.C. (so long as the dockers agreed to, which most often they did not).
To accommodate the rails and electric supply for these cranes, instead of widening the whole beam of the ship, from the load water line upwards the hull flared out sufficiently to accommodate the crane tracks, the electrical supply cables and also provide walkways for crew to go fwd.
This meant that the pilot ladder was never flush against the ships hull (and boy did pilots hate that, more akin to climbing the Jacobs ladder slung over the stern to read aft draft than a pilot ladder).
This flare meant that despite being non Panamax sized, we had to carry the same number of pilots that a Panamax ship did (plus one for any emergency) as the bridge pilot could not just lean over the side and see how far she was off the lock wall due to the flare. This also meant that fwd we had to have special Panama Canal platforms that projected outboard so that the fwd pilots could relay how far off she was at the waterline, along with the usual bridge wing shelters. All of the shelters and platforms were not permanent fixtures and so were a right bitch to erect and take down every passage and if we got them slightly wrong or the canvas covers were not 100% the bitchy canal pilots would refuse to take us through until they were fixed to their satisfaction.
As cadet (apart from fighting a massive hangover after a night ashore in Cristobel where we always bunkered overnight which was a bit strange as whatever time we left our load port of Jacksonville we always arrived in Cristobel just in time to get alongside in the evening and spend the night bunkering before being in the first daytime convoy. No night time transits due to ships design) my job was to keep the fwd pilots supplied with soft drinks on a continuous basis. Nearly caused a riot on one transit when one of the fwd pilots demanded a beer one time instead of a soda and I refused him. He got on his radio to the command pilot screaming that I had refused to bring him refreshment and that he was coming off his station resulting in us not being able to lock in. I explained to a very angry irate Captain and Command Pilot that I had not refused him refreshment, just that I ( a whipper snapper of a cadet) had refused him alcohol. The resulting exchange between the command pilot, captain and fwd. pilot would have caused even Cappy's one legged Mary to cover her ears in shame at the language used. Net result was the fwd. pilot accepting a soda but after that at every lock he had me virtually continuously running back and forward bringing him cans of soda. He must have pissed himself stupid after every lock afterwards the amount he drunk.
rgds
JA
p.s. Wonder how these Panamax ships with fully enclosed bridges get on as the pilots used to need to lean over the side in order to see along the ships side when entering or leaving the lock. All the enclosed wheelhouse ships I sailed on had no opening windows due to the aircon for all the electronic gear in the wheelhouse, plus they were all tankers.

[Ivan Cloherty]

My memories must be different then Ivan. There were no ships ropes used going through the locks only 4 shore wires attached to the electric mules. The Chippy was required for the windlass only in an emergency. Cheers JS

We didn't use ship's ropes John, just the mules wires. always remember the guys on the lockside always threw their heaving ropes underhand, instead of a monkey's fist they had a leather pouch with sand inside, felt more like a nut and bolt if it hit you.